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Post by JerseyGirl on Feb 20, 2021 18:51:45 GMT -5
Why Dave Grohl Didn’t Abandon the Foo Fighters for Tom Petty Martin Kielty Published: February 15, 2021 rock1041.com/dave-grohl-tom-petty/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referralDave Grohl has explained why he rejected an offer from Tom Petty to join the Heartbreakers after the success of a TV collaboration in 1994, instead pursuing his then-new Foo Fighters project. Grohl was still struggling to deal with the recent death of Nirvana bandmate Kurt Cobain when he guested on drums on Saturday Night Live with Petty, performing “Honey Bee” and “Runnin’ Down a Dream.” Petty followed with a phone call, Grohl recently told Howard Stern on SiriusXM. “I did Saturday Night Live with Tom Petty, and we had so much fun and we all got along so well," Grohl said. "I was like, 'Wait, why would it be me?' … He could get like a world-class drummer, like any dude.” He described Petty as “very cool, low-key and down-to-Earth.” Asked if he took the invitation to join the Heartbreakers seriously, Grohl said: “Yeah. We played SNL and afterwards, basically, he was like: 'Man, that was good. It would be a shame if that’s the only time we do it.' Then he called me at home, and he’s like, ‘Well, look, if you want, here’s how we’d do it: You get your own bus. We don’t tour too hard. … If you’re into it, let’s go out and do it for a little while.'" There were at least two reasons to refuse. “I’d just started doing this thing,” Grohl said, referring to Foo Fighters. “And I just felt weird about going back just to the drums, because it would just have reminded me of being back in Nirvana. It would have been sad, for me personally. It would have been an emotional thing to be behind the drums every night and not have Kurt there. So I was like, ‘Nah, fuck it. I’m going to try this other thing.” Grohl earlier refuted the suggestion that he was also invited to join Pearl Jam after Nirvana collapsed: “I don’t know where the Pearl Jam thing came from,” he said. “I knew those guys, but they never called and asked me to play drums with them. I jammed with them once on stage in like Australia or something like that – but no, they didn’t call.”
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MorrisAutoParts
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Post by MorrisAutoParts on Feb 28, 2021 16:28:58 GMT -5
Never heard he was invited Full time. After the monster performance on SNL, neither TP nor Grohl really wanted to let it go, Petty already had a drummer and Dave was sorting out Nirvana and wanting to go with a younger group I suspect. So a little truth in it. He may have been invited part time, like as a special guest. Even that never happened which is the case in so many sure deals.
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Post by MDfan aka The MD Well Man on Mar 2, 2021 3:49:14 GMT -5
Who is Dave Grohl
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MorrisAutoParts
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Post by MorrisAutoParts on Mar 4, 2021 10:31:43 GMT -5
Well he is the latest rock God, don't cha know? He is now the mature voice among the elite, because he was with a band that was hot a few decades ago and worked with the supposedly legendary Cobain. He also has stories about himself almost joining Bowie. And Foo fighter stories. So he has the history and the stories and the kids now sit and listen to him as the authority. In short, he got pedigree. I had forgotten he did two songs with Petty on SNL, Running down a dream and Honeybee. Here are a few seconds of that set plus Grohl talking about it. Honeybee was killer that night. The kid could play. Who knows maybe Tom was considering it. Grohl probably would have cost too much.
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Forum Lord
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Post by Forum Lord on Mar 5, 2021 12:28:26 GMT -5
The kid could play. Who knows maybe Tom was considering it. Grohl probably would have cost too much. You're right. The kid can play which is precisely why he refused to play backup Tom Petty. The kid wanted to let his own creativity shine rather than just be a hired sidekick subordinate mink coat wrap around player for the superstar Tom Petty. He chose personal creativity and expression of himself over being told what to play, when to play it, and how to play it. Here's your paycheck now shut the hell up and play the beat Tom Petty dictates. Oh, and don't play too loudly so everyone can hear Tom Petty. And don't play over his guitar either. Your job is simply to keep a beat for Tom Petty way down in the pocket- just drums. Yeah, I don't blame him one bit! "And I just felt weird about going back just to the drums..." Going back to just drums. Yeah, I totally get it. The guy did not want to be used and shoved into the subordinate box Tom Petty wanted to put him in. So bye! Dave Grohl makes it perfectly clear he did not want to become this- a mink wrap around player just on drums: Tom Petty and his subordinate HeartBreakers- the band who never got to play! On every song they always had to play DOWN and play AROUND the super star. Fit your playing around Tom Petty always like a mink coat. Did Tom Petty ever get the hell out of the way and let the band rip it up and jam and really play like they might have wanted to? This is why the music of Tom Petty has zero appeal to me. It is downplayed music so the super star can shine while no one else in the band does. Tom Petty = mink coat music. And is PRECISELY why Dave Grohl said HELL NO! Not going BACK to that. NOT going back to just drums for someone else. Cagey and Dave Grohl say:
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MorrisAutoParts
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Post by MorrisAutoParts on Mar 5, 2021 14:14:49 GMT -5
You're insane. First of all listen to the song Honeybee or a few seconds of it, it's not a deep intellectual song,it's about procreating.As Dave Grohl said "It's a barnburner,killer". He isn't referring to the cliche vocals, he is talking about the heartbreaker band. So how exactly is Petty keeping his band down? By letting them do barnburners?
He did albums where the band was more showcased, and individual songs was a mixed lot. It might be Petty singing a little more in depth. It might be an emotional love song or song about killing someone. Or it may be just like Honeybee, a barn burner. The man had many talents, a volume of work that few can touch, and he didn't step on the other's input on album or live. You're just looking for reasons to hate. His lead guitarist usually wrote the rhythms and Tom did verse. So the very structure of 80% of Petty's material is from his lead guitarist!!!! It was up to Mike Campbell how much he wanted to step out and step up. He preferred just stepping back, and letting the Chorus and Harmonies compliment his work. He had as much chance as anyone to be a secondary superstar but Mikes a humble guy from a little town called Gainesville.
He learned the music complimented the vocals because every half assed band in town had instruments but few unique vocalist who could write. Hence the natural progression of the band. Tom stepped out front, dropped the singular band name and became TOM PETTY, and the heartbreakers. This was no accident. Tom wanted up front, and Mike didn't care. Tom had a recording contract, all on his own, needed to hire a band. The band's very name reflects that business arrangement. In the end Mr. Campbell has his malibu mansion, so I would say he did it the right way. He saw a unique talent in Petty and made the right call. Was he a full equal split? Who knows, but I never heard him complain about cash, song choice, wanting more up front time, nothing. I never heard his band complain about Tom. Ever.
The music speaks for itself in albums sold and longetivity, no matter if you do not care for artist. Because you are insane. Omg, I could go on days, why was Grohl excited to work with Petty? Because the best know the best and want to work with the best.
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Post by Forum Lord on Mar 5, 2021 20:02:50 GMT -5
Its all AOR.
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Post by MorrisAutoParts on Mar 5, 2021 22:54:56 GMT -5
What's AOR?
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Post by JerseyGirl on Mar 5, 2021 23:36:12 GMT -5
Playing with Tom Petty was a great opportunity for Dave Grohl. But in my opinion there was a part of him that wanted to create music on his terms. He managed to have a successful career with the Foo Fighters.
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Post by Forum Lord on Mar 6, 2021 9:38:38 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Album-oriented_rockAlbum-oriented rock (AOR, originally called album-oriented radio), is an FM radio format created in the United States in the 1970s that focused on the full repertoire of rock albums and is currently associated with classic rock.[1][2] Originally, album-oriented radio was established by US radio stations dedicated to playing album tracks by rock artists from the hard rock to progressive rock genres which in the mid-1970s were characterized by a layered, mellifluous sound and sophisticated production with considerable dependence on melodic hooks. Using research and formal programming to create an album rock format with greater commercial appeal, the AOR format achieved tremendous popularity in the late 1970s and early 1980s. From the early 1980s onwards, the album-oriented radio term became normally used as the abbreviation of “Album-oriented rock”, meaning radio stations specialized in rock music recorded during the later 1960s and the 1970s. --------------------------------------------------------------- AOR is a format artists constructed their music to fit within so they could get played on the radio. Music tailored for the radio market is called AOR. Tom Petty is a classic case of AOR. He was aiming for hit songs. His music is form fit for AOR. Short songs. Catchy tunes. Poppy lyrics. Rock formatting. There is no more perfect of a case for form fitting into AOR than Tom Petty. Every album. Almost every song. All of his music is AOR to me. He knew what he was doing. He wanted success and this is how he got it. But in doing so he had to sacrifice something else... With Skynyrd we got a T For Texas song. I am not aware of any Tom Petty song that goes outside of AOR pattern like Skynyrd's T For Texas did. Bands that did not conform to AOR were never heard from like Dixie Dregs. Either you fit into the system and get heard, or you did not care about fitting into the system and never got heard. Tom Petty fit himself into the system and is a classic case of AOR form fitting music. And you just gotta understand this is what turns me off to his music. I don't care for cookie cutter music. I'm curious now... how many instrumental songs are on Tom Petty albums?
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Post by Forum Lord on Mar 6, 2021 9:42:51 GMT -5
Playing with Tom Petty was a great opportunity for Dave Grohl. But in my opinion there was a part of him that wanted to create music on his terms. He managed to have a successful career with the Foo Fighters. You got it! He found success with his own creativity expression. Had he gone with Tom Petty no one ever would have heard his creativity. All he would have been is a dam drummer backing Tom Petty who would collect all the fame, all the money, all the credit, everything. And it is still this way to this day. We all know Tom Petty and the HeartBreakers, but in the real world, the tens of millions of people, hundreds of millions, billions even, of people who listen to his music around the country and around the world, how many of them can name you one friggin band member of the Heartbreakers? I can't. And that is the problem here. Tom Petty did not make the Heartbreakers famous. They made him famous and virtually no one knows who his band was. No one really cares either. Thankfully it was not Ronnie Van Zant and his Skynyrd band. It was just Lynyrd Skynyrd. Huge difference. With Skynyrd we got a real rock band. With the Heartbreakers we got a backing band having to play down and play around their star and make just him look and sound good as Tom Petty overrides on every song. The focus is all on Tom Petty.
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MorrisAutoParts
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Post by MorrisAutoParts on Mar 6, 2021 10:54:26 GMT -5
I like AOR. Our best music came from the Album format. Grohl loved Petty so he also loved album format I guess. An album was made as a composition from song choice to album art. Each album was its own trip. You say that nobody heard of bands once the "AOR" framework was disused. I agree so what was bad about AOR? I dont even think Petty was much AOR he just made songs. Some did hit and were crossovers.
It does not matter that his bandmates are not well known by some. The experts and true aficionados know. If they could live in relative but rich anonomity what's the problem? They knew the rules change when the artists name is on everything. It was -Tom Petty and the heartbreakers. His name first and prominant.
Do we know Phil Collins band? Roger Waters band? Peter Gabriel, Billy Joel, Joe Walsh's band, on and on? Not really so much. Once an artist breaks out of being just part of the band and becomes the named focus then naturally most of the hype is about the named artist.Very natural. These are the rules. Tom was very aware of it and handled it fairly. Some albums would be "solo" and just have Pettys name.Other songs were made as "band" projects. Jeez louise the man was trying to make a lot of folks happy and rich, and he did it. Now he gets dealt an "AOR" label as if thats bad. I wish they brought back AOR. You like "sampling" instead? Long streams of instrumentals? Sorry that crap was never popular. Gimme Paul Mccartney and Alice Cooper. Every great band including LS, focused on the singer and they all tried to get hit albums. Are they all "AOR"? That AOR label is meaningless nonsense created by someone with too much leisure time.
Was Petty being selfish in the Wilburys? Nope. Was he selfish helping a washed up Dylan tour? Selfish helping Roger Mcguinn? Johnny Cash? No again. He tried to help out these other artists with little self exposure at all. But in his own career he wasn't sacrificing himself for the good of the band, no. He had too much drive for that line of poverty.
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Post by Forum Lord on Mar 6, 2021 12:40:58 GMT -5
Now he gets dealt an "AOR" label as if thats bad. Yes. In a way it is bad because it is also a form of selling out one's art for fame and fortune. Let me us an analogy from the oil painting art world... Have you ever changed rooms at a seaside hotel and saw the same painting in the second room? This is one of the dirty secrets of the art world most people do not know about... when people buy an oil painting signed by the artist and think they have a masterpiece worth a fortune only to find out that same artist painted this same painting a thousand times for commercial contracts into hotels and condominium time share resorts. So rather than a priceless one of a kind masterpiece what they actually have is a cookie cutter worthless piece of junk. They did not know the artist in his studio had 50 canvases lined up side by side as he went down the line with his paint brushes duplicating the precise same image over and over and over and over just to be sold as worthless commercial art. So instead of a priceless masterpiece all they have is a $5 thrift store oil painting. I should know... I own several and attended local art shows where I saw stacks of cookie cutter paintings for sale. Music is no different. Each of Tom Petty's albums all follow the same cookie cutter AOR pattern formatting. Tom Petty is intentionally form fitting his music into a commercially sellable pattern on purpose, by design, and by intent of hoping to score a hit song in an established radio marketing game plan not of his own deign and making. So Tom Petty's entire career in music has been a predictable sellout of his real talent and artistry we never got to know or hear because of his choice of form fitting his music into someone else's system of music distribution he wanted access to hoping to score that hit and rake in the money from it. I see AOR as a trap and Tom Petty was certainly trapped within it his entire career. Was Petty being selfish in the Wilburys? Nope. Was he selfish helping a washed up Dylan tour? No again. He tried to help out with little self exposure at all. The Wilbury's are also a classic case of AOR music formulation patternization. And it worked. And yes it did help over the hill washed up musicians get back into creative productivity even if it was predictable formulated cookie cutter music. Today I listen to Joe Bonamassa and Walter Trout's new music because these guys could not care less about radio hits and AOR forumlated music. Joe Bonamassa and Walter Trout make the music they want to and if the world likes it and buys it, then cool. If not, oh well. I respect that. And because of their outside the AOR box mentality, I find that I can enjoy their true to themselves music far more than I can ever enjoy what Tom Petty did for a music career within the AOR music box. I hope you understand and can accept where I am coming from on this one because for me no amount of discussion can ever take Tom Petty out of that cookie cutter AOR pattern he squarely placed himself and his music and his entire career within. His albums to me are no different than the oil painting artist lining up 50 canvases side by side and running down the line with the precise same strokes on each canvas painting the exact same painting over and over and over. This is what Tom Petty's albums are to me. The same thing over and over and over. He bores me. His music is lame to me. I only listen to one song of his on my regular music rotation and that is Last Dance With Mary Jane, and one or 2 songs from the Traveling Wilbury's is all I can stomach of his. Tom Petty made and sold the same cookie for his entire career. And I believe this is also why Dave Grohl told Tom Petty no to becoming just his beat keeper.
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MorrisAutoParts
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Post by MorrisAutoParts on Mar 6, 2021 12:59:29 GMT -5
No he is no cookie cutter. He wouldn't be lionized by people like Grohl if he was phoning it in. Cookie cutter is when everyone is doing what you are doing and the price of that oil painting becomes $25 bucks. The fact he made gazillions doing whatever he was doing was obviously not cookie cutting. Nor were most huge AOR stars cookie cutting. The Eagles didn't sound anything like Fleetwood Mac. Find a Huge financial success in music who says that. It's untrue. You had to have a new sound to get played. Whether Kansas or Gerry Rafferty, new sounds drove kids to stores and they bought the LP's to make bands famous.
What IS true, is that for about 3 albums he did seem to fall in a rut. Last dance with Mary Jane, That is commercial nonsense. He did exactly like the Eagles and the Mac. Their labels probably demanded more radio friendly songs and he was hooked on Heroin. But with Petty you're judging a career off a couple mediocre albums. He put out records for 40 years. His last 20 years he worked on whatever he wanted since they weren't getting played anyway. Plus he could afford to branch out. A lot of respected musicians do what they have to do to put bread on the table. A lot today have no shot at superstardom so some are bitter, some are resigned to it, and some put on the best face possible and proclaim "at least I do it for the love of the music". Yeah whatever.
From 2001 to 2016 Petty did respected work in a dying field. THOSE are real gems. The last twenty years you missed out. Think Ronnie could write quality material for 40 years. Yes I do. But it might change radically. BTW I believe Ronnie would "go commercial" in a heartbeat until he was on solid financial grounds. All bands are the same.
But Petty can come to no one without you calling first. Just go back to your bar bands, and try to sin no more.
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Post by JerseyGirl on Mar 6, 2021 13:49:34 GMT -5
Randy Rhoads was an artist that stood out in Ozzy Osbourne's band. Steve Stevens stands out in Billy Idol's band. I am sure there are some others I can not think of at the moment.
Tom Petty like 38 Special went a different route when it came to music than bands like Skynyrd and Pink Floyd did. Skynyrd and Pink Floyd both have strong fan bases even through they did not have as many commercial hits like Tom Petty. The Grateful Dead is another band that goes in the Skynyrd and Pink Floyd category.
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Post by Forum Lord on Mar 6, 2021 14:14:19 GMT -5
Take a read on how Tom Petty is viewed in Rolling Stone magazine: "His hits have defined rock radio since the Seventies" Nailed it right there. AOR defined. And yet for some strange reason, all these hit songs and NO ONE can name his band members- except for you and other die hard fans, but to the millions of people listening to the radio they have no clue. Why is that? Dave Grohl knew. From wikipedia: "The single "Mary Jane's Last Dance" became one of Petty's most popular songs, reaching No. 14 on the Billboard Hot 100 and No. 1 on the Billboard Mainstream Rock Tracks chart." Mainstream music charts... now if that is not form fitting I don't know what is... AOR form fit like a glove... www.tinymixtapes.com/delorean/tom-petty-wildflowersOf course, Wildflowers isn’t without its share of blunders. For starters, the length makes it difficult to listen in one sitting, and it’s easy to spot tracks that should have stayed on the cutting-room floor. A couple songs are straight cookie-cutter — namely “Cabin Down Below” and “Honey Bee,” the latter filled with inexcusable lyrics about givin’ Petty some sugar and buzzin’ ‘round his tree. Elsewhere, “Hard on Me” is a failed exercise in slow-burning rock done much better on the earlier “It’s Good to Be King.” The jaunty “To Find a Friend,” on which Ringo Starr makes a guest appearance, isn’t a bad song, but it’s a near carbon copy of the album’s title track." Straight cookie cutter songs. Imagine that! And carbon copies. Another word I could have used... glad this critic caught it. www.tompetty.com/news/tom-pettys-los-angeles-la-weekly-787131"it contains the perfect Petty formula of Americana nostalgia, narrative, the open road and a bittersweet realization sung against a great pop hook." Ah, the Petty formula right from his own website no less! "In the evenings, Petty would go to the Shelter offices, and he and Cordell would play records of great songwriters, learning to pick out good songwriting from bad." Learning to shape his cookie cutter to refined precision! www.keno.org/classic_rock/fan_album_reviews/Tom_Petty.htmDec 11, 2004 — They seem to be cookie-cutter Petty, and if you listen to the record more then once you'll probably skip both songs to get to 'Running Down A Dream..." Review after review all say the same thing... cookie cutter Petty! joybeat.com/an-open-letter-to-tom-petty-about-edm-from-his-biggest-fan/"Here’s what I’m thinking. You know how there’s good and bad music in any genre? Well, the stuff you’re seeing/hearing in the mainstream? That’s the bad. I admit it. That’s, as Deadmau5 calls it, “Carbon Copy Cookie-Cutter” formulaic bullshit and a very bad example of the talent and creativity some electronic music producers have. You’re hearing the dumbed-down money-machine music that the masses eat up because they’re told by the man and their bros that it’s cool. I hate that stuff and only listen to it when I have to for work as a music journalist. And it’s torture." And this guy is describing the market Tom Petty fit himself into for an entire career. I'll admit Tom did write a variety of music trying to keep it up to date and relevant and somewhat a different shaped cookie... but... a chocolate chip cookie is still a chocolate chip cookie no matter what the shape. Petty's music is the same for me. All one flavor of cookie with slight variation in shapes is all. Just not for me. I want people like Tom Petty to get off the stage and go sit down and let the band rip it up. Tom was always in the way. He had a band no one knew.
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MorrisAutoParts
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Post by MorrisAutoParts on Mar 6, 2021 15:16:00 GMT -5
Your using "deadmau5"? as a reference. WTF is deadmau5? Another "expert" that ain't got 20 mil in the bank like Tom's lead guitarist. Haters will hate. Whether you know the bass guitarists name is irrevelant, if you were interested you would look it up. 90% of the world can't tell me Pink Floyds lineup. So what?
Whether they were a radio staple is legit, and there wasn't an artist out there who didn't want to be on the radio. They all did. Skynyrd included. Think Gimme 3 steps isn't cookie cutter? Think Ronnie didn't see dollar signs after finishing SHA? Think again. Petty took the same route they all would take if they had the talent to flourish on radio. Most acts were one hit wonders back then. Take a look at Billboard 1972 it's full of one hitters who faded away. But make no mistake they all wanted on the radio cause it sold albums. If you did cookie cutter music you weren't getting on, exact opposite your claim. Those one hit wonders all had a unique sound at least for one or two songs. But again you take the 70's and 80's as his whole career. It extended long past the radio days. He could do radio, he could do country, he was talented. You don't become a legend being a cookie cutter. Seek and you will find.
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Post by heathinvader on Mar 6, 2021 20:12:48 GMT -5
Never heard he was invited Full time. After the monster performance on SNL, neither TP nor Grohl really wanted to let it go, Petty already had a drummer and Dave was sorting out Nirvana and wanting to go with a younger group I suspect. So a little truth in it. He may have been invited part time, like as a special guest. Even that never happened which is the case in so many sure deals. Not so much a younger group as much as a new one. He recorded the first album between late-1994 and early-1995 all by himself, with himself doing all the instruments and vocals except for one slide guitar playing on the song "Oh George," a song he wrote as a tribute to George Harrison. Some of the songs on that first Foo Fighters album were originally written when Dave was still in Nirvana, and some of them were actually going to be Nirvana songs, most notably Alone & Easy Target, Big Me, and Exhausted. Kurt got to hear early demos of Alone & Easy Target and Exhausted, and he loved them! It's been said that Nirvana once actually played Alone & Easy Target during a soundcheck for one of their 1991 concerts, but no recordings of it have circulated. It's also been said that Kurt wanted to try and do a version of Exhausted with his own lyrics, but never asked Dave about it because he was nervous about messing with an already complete song that wasn't his own. Can't blame him there! In the end, the only song of Dave's that Nirvana actually got to record and release was aa song called Marigold, which the Foo Fighters wouldn't perform until they did their live unplugged album, Skin & Bones. Dave & bass player Krist did record a demo of Big Me, however, while waiting for Kurt to come to the studio to record what would turn out to be Nirvana's final studio song, You Know You're Right. Anyway, to Dave's surprise, the album did really well, so he had to scrounge a band together quick so there can be a tour to support the album. Dave had to start a brand new band under the new album's moniker from the ground up, and former Germs/Nirvana guitarist Pat Smear was one of the first to join in. The lineup has changed a ton since Dave originally started it, and their sound has changed a lot too. They recently released a brand new album called Medicine at Midnight, and it freaking ROCKS!!!!!!! Highly recommend checking it out.
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Post by MorrisAutoParts on Mar 7, 2021 13:02:50 GMT -5
Dang, Heath is Mr.Nirvana. But that's another thread. That we probably already did. You need to start those threads you seem the expert. Cobaine- Overrated manic depressive with 2 great chart toppers? or ahead of his time? Was the band better than Cobaine?
Anyway it's clear where Wizz's hate for Petty comes from. It's not the songs, or the personality, it's Steve Ferrone.Petty's drummer who happens to be a person of color. Let's admit the white elephant in the room(no pun intended). The black drummer Ferrone acting all uppity,wearing suits and shaving his head like Mr.T. There are many in the south who will not accept a "N Word" into a real rock band. I think the racism is blatant in this Petty review. It was called mink coat music because of the animal skins and fur that represent the animal in Petty's band. Quite demeaning and unjustified. It's best to learn to love one another despite skin color. Otherwise someone may be using racism as a subconcious, insidious tool that influences their preferences.
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Post by Forum Lord on Mar 7, 2021 13:07:18 GMT -5
Say what? I was not even aware Petty Crocker had a black drummer until just now.
I actually can't stand Petty Crocker himself and his annoying voice and cookie cutter songs he baked up.
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