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Post by MDfan aka The MD Well Man on Oct 30, 2016 4:41:44 GMT -5
I have been shot 5 or 6 times dove hunting and the light bird shot stings a little but just bounces off you
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MorrisAutoParts
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Post by MorrisAutoParts on Oct 30, 2016 17:40:33 GMT -5
You have been shot 5 or 6 times!? Holy cow MDfan you need to change hunting partners.
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Post by MDfan aka The MD Well Man on Oct 30, 2016 19:17:01 GMT -5
Man you hunt with a bunch of shot happy rednecks on opening day of Dove season and you are bound to catch a shot or 2 or get your ears rung. The last time I went quail hunting a buddy of mine shot a tree and the shot ricoshade off and hit me and a frynd of mine
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Forum Lord
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Post by Forum Lord on Oct 30, 2016 20:20:55 GMT -5
I've been hit with ricochet shrapnel too, but I did not know it counted as being shot!
It happened twice in my life. One time I was firing a handgun, 9mm I think at metal targets and some of the lead shot splattered upon impact and bounced back at me, and the second time was when I was firing full auto with a mac-10 45 calibre machine gun I was again firing at some metal- solid steel targets welded onto car springs so they bounced around when hit and same thing, shrapnel from the 45 calibre lead bullets splattered back at me.
Now that I think of it, there was a 3rd time when I was a kid, a teenager, my dad and I took trips up into the mountains of NC and Tennessee and we took our guns with us. Well one day I took my dad's 30-06 without permission because I wanted to try and replicate something I saw in a commercial on TV back home in Jacksonville.
You know that old TV commercial for Master padlocks where they shot a rifle bullet through the padlock and it still held? Well yeah I wanted to replicate that and see if it was true. I learned the hard way that what I did was not what they did...
So there I was... on the side of a mountain in Tennessee on a bright sunny morning with my dad's 30-06 rifle in hand and a master padlock. I set it down on a rock in a locked position and then I walked away from it about 20 to 25 feet or so and thought this would be a piece of cake.
So I dialed in my target and line of sight and I fired a silver tipped .220 grain round into that master padlock and blew it to smithereens along with the rock it was sitting on. And there was a nice sized hole in the side of the mountain about 6 inches in diameter and about 12 inches or more deep.
I blew that padlock into hundreds of small tiny pieces- many of which blew right back in my face. Glad I had some eye protection goggles on because metal shrapnel was hitting me hard. I bet I had a dozen or so places on me bleeding from the flying metal shrapnel that day- not to mention all that red clay blown back at me.
When my dad saw his beautiful rifle covered in red clay he was not a happy camper. I don't recall if I ever told him what I actually shot it at or was doing with it.
So I learned the hard way on that day the secret to the above tv commercial. Yes, he used a .30 calibre rifle same as I did, but he used a titanium tipped armor piercing round that slid through the riveted metal plates of the padlock like a hot knife through butter.
I on the other hand used a round made for stopping big game dead in their tracks. My silver tipped bullet was designed to spread out like a mushroom upon impact so when it hit that padlock it did not slide through like a hot knife through butter. My bullet flattened out and blew the lock, the rock, and anything behind it to smithereens and then blew it all right back in my face.
So Master padlocks were known for being tough under fire? Not with my dad's bullets. That lock did not survive and it dam sure did not stay locked because there was not enough pieces of it left to find.
Another stupid thing I did as a kid was a friend of mine reloaded .30-30 rifle rounds and sometimes the brass case would crack or split when he tried to press a new bullet into it. When that happened he had to carefully remove the bullet for reuse in another round, and then dump out all the powder to reuse in another round, but once the prime was pressed in place you could not remove those.
So we would take them out in the backyard and put an emptied round on top of a concrete block and set another concrete block on top of it to hold it in place and then step back about 15 to 20 feet and with a BB gun we would take turns shooting at the primer trying to set it off to render it harmless.
So we went back and forth trying to hit that primer and one time I did it and I felt a ker-thunk to my head and skull so I knew I had been hit with something but I did not know what until my buddy told me there was blood flowing down my face.
So I walked inside the house and went into the bathroom and sure enough, I was bleeding and I looked around my left eye and saw a little hole. Inside that hole was the BB. I popped it out like popping a zit. I had come real close to losing an eye that day. It was less than a half an inch from my eyeball. I could have been permanently blinded in my left eye that day but I got lucky. Apparently some of the powder stuck to the inside of the cracked shell casing and when I hit that primer off it ignited the remaining gun powder and it blew out forward like a rocket shooting the brass casing directly back at me propelling that BB back into my face as if it had been shot out of a gun.
Kind of strange to have that BB coming back at me with more force than it had when I shot it out at the primer in the brass casing.
Does any of this count as being shot? Heck I never thought about it like that before.
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Forum Lord
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Post by Forum Lord on Oct 30, 2016 20:43:17 GMT -5
Looks like a lot of other people had the same idea I got based on that old TV commercial... and this is precisely why they should have said- "DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!"
I like how this guy starts off small and works his way to the big stuff.
While this guy just starts with the big gun... like I did. And I tried looking for pieces to my padlock while bleeding and did not find much left.
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Suze
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Post by Suze on Nov 26, 2016 17:44:45 GMT -5
Artimus was in the Marines and in multiples vehicle crashes in his life. That scar could be from anything. I doubt he was shot. The Motes let him in to use the phone to call his wife for Christ's sake. A warning shot over his head would be over his head, the pattern would not be that big at say 50 yards, to hit Artimus anywhere. Like the story of the broken ribs sticking from his side, it got overblown with each re-telling. Basically Artimus was bruised up a lot, no doubt so was Pedren as well. That was the extent of his injuries. If he was really shot he would have produced a doctors report by now saying "removed shotgun pellets" and put this issue to bed. I'm new, and I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I would assume that any doctors' notes or reports would have been destroyed within a few years after the crash. I'm a legal secretary and I request medical records all the time for our cases and, after a certain point (and depending on what doctor or hospital you're dealing with), they're just not available anymore, even in electronic form. I'm sure by the time he (or anyone else) would have thought of needing something to verify his account, it was already too late. Just my two cents on that particular issue, for whatever it might be worth.
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Post by BlueMonday on Nov 26, 2016 18:07:15 GMT -5
There have been so many fibs and lies told by so many people about this crash that it's impossible to tell truth from fiction anymore.
I have trouble with the shooting story. Arti had just survived a plane crash, a horrible, traumatic event in itself. Being shot would have been another traumatic event. It seems to me that this would be more than enough to send even the bravest, most cool-headed person into shock.
I think that the likely explanation is that Mote thought they were tresspassers, maybe among the convicts that had escaped from a nearby prison (they undoubtedly looked like hell...) So he probably fired one shot in the air to scare them away.
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Suze
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Post by Suze on Nov 26, 2016 21:22:22 GMT -5
There have been so many fibs and lies told by so many people about this crash that it's impossible to tell truth from fiction anymore. I have trouble with the shooting story. Arti had just survived a plane crash, a horrible, traumatic event in itself. Being shot would have been another traumatic event. It seems to me that this would be more than enough to send even the bravest, most cool-headed person into shock. I think that the likely explanation is that Mote thought they were tresspassers, maybe among the convicts that had escaped from a nearby prison (they undoubtedly looked like hell...) So he probably fired one shot in the air to scare them away. Oh, I wasn't swinging either way on which version of the story is the correct one. It's just that even if Artimus did have some kind of proof of being shot after the crash in medical records somewhere, he likely couldn't provide it anyway because it probably hasn't been available for several decades now. Frankly, I think Mote probably did shoot at Artimus, just to keep him out of his fridge. (I'm kidding!! That's the most ridiculous story yet! )
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gator
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Post by gator on Nov 29, 2016 9:12:01 GMT -5
I had a friend of mine killed with bird shot
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Post by BlueMonday on Nov 29, 2016 9:53:58 GMT -5
Frankly, I think Mote probably did shoot at Artimus, just to keep him out of his fridge. (I'm kidding!! That's the most ridiculous story yet! No, that's the second most ridiculous. By far, the top spot goes to the hippy handshake story, another Arti whopper. You know the one: as the plane is about to crash, Arti and Ronnie calmly pass each other in the aisle and shake hands, and Arti could tell that Ronnie knew he was about to die. Add a few bucks to that one and I have a nice patch of swamp land in Florida that you can have really cheap. Or a bridge in NYC, whichever you prefer
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Suze
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Post by Suze on Nov 29, 2016 12:32:07 GMT -5
Frankly, I think Mote probably did shoot at Artimus, just to keep him out of his fridge. (I'm kidding!! That's the most ridiculous story yet! No, that's the second most ridiculous. By far, the top spot goes to the hippy handshake story, another Arti whopper. You know the one: as the plane is about to crash, Arti and Ronnie calmly pass each other in the aisle and shake hands, and Arti could tell that Ronnie knew he was about to die. Add a few bucks to that one and I have a nice patch of swamp land in Florida that you can have really cheap. Or a bridge in NYC, whichever you prefer Would it be wrong of me to say that I enjoy Artimus's storytelling skills? Stevie Nicks (for example) has a similar way of romanticizing stories, and her stories have morphed in different ways over the years. Even though I know some of what she says is completely impossible, I still enjoy the experience of hearing her tell the story. Maybe it's not the best way of relaying information when you're talking about something as significant as this particular plane crash, but I give Artimus a pass, because I feel like he's earned his right to embellish. If he were standing in front of me telling me that he shook Ronnie's hand before the plane went down, I would probably just say something like, "That was an incredible moment you both shared," nod and smile and be happy he said anything at all to me. Now, tell me more about this swamp land you have....?
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Post by BlueMonday on Nov 29, 2016 13:24:23 GMT -5
Would it be wrong of me to say that I enjoy Artimus's storytelling skills? Stevie Nicks (for example) has a similar way of romanticizing stories, and her stories have morphed in different ways over the years. Even though I know some of what she says is completely impossible, I still enjoy the experience of hearing her tell the story. Maybe it's not the best way of relaying information when you're talking about something as significant as this particular plane crash, but I give Artimus a pass, because I feel like he's earned his right to embellish. If he were standing in front of me telling me that he shook Ronnie's hand before the plane went down, I would probably just say something like, "That was an incredible moment you both shared," nod and smile and be happy he said anything at all to me. It would not be wrong since it is your opinion and you have the right to state it I don't really mind Arti telling the hippy handshake story. It's so goofy that no sane person will believe it. But I don't feel the same way about the shooting story. Many fans believe that one and even the ones who don't can't be 100% sure that it didn't happen because there is no irrefutable evidence that it didn't. At this point, any evidence will be circumstancial. Lying to the fans is not cool. The crash story is already larger than life, it doesn't need embellishments. There are also fans, including some here on this forum, who want to learn everything they can about the crash and why it happened. The multitude of lies, half truths, quarter truths, conflicting stories and memory losses make that an almost impossible task. Now, tell me more about this swamp land you have....? Do I have the offer of the century for you! Beautiful swampy land with big swampy swamps. It can be yours for one hippy handshake and 20 coins that were on the plane. How can you turn this once-in-a-lifetime offer down?
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Suze
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Post by Suze on Nov 29, 2016 15:50:38 GMT -5
It would not be wrong since it is your opinion and you have the right to state it I don't really mind Arti telling the hippy handshake story. It's so goofy that no sane person will believe it. But I don't feel the same way about the shooting story. Many fans believe that one and even the ones who don't can't be 100% sure that it didn't happen because there is no irrefutable evidence that it didn't. At this point, any evidence will be circumstancial. Lying to the fans is not cool. The crash story is already larger than life, it doesn't need embellishments. There are also fans, including some here on this forum, who want to learn everything they can about the crash and why it happened. The multitude of lies, half truths, quarter truths, conflicting stories and memory losses make that an almost impossible task. I absolutely understand that and now I feel bad for not thinking of it that way. I apologize. I was only thinking of it from the perspective of listening to someone tell a tall tale and giving them a pass for any number of reasons. I'm new to this board and I don't really know all the players here yet so I'm not really comfortable stating my opinions. But, to the extent it matters, I think Johnny Mote fired into the air to warn whoever was approaching him that he had a gun and wasn't afraid to use it. I don't think he fired at Artimus but, as you say, there is no irrefutable proof of that, so who knows. (And I have a terrific history of being wrong, so it wouldn't shock me if I had to add this opinion to that list.) I think the simplest explanations (and the explanations given closer to the time of the crash) are probably the most correct. God knows, the more anyone tells a story, the more it can change and Artimus has been telling this story over and over for 39 years. Again, I've just always given him a pass because the crash was no doubt terrifying and horrific and I think he was pretty courageous for jumping into action and running for help. I don't know if I would have been able to do that, Marine training or not. I totally understand your wanting him to be completely factual, but I don't think he's "lying", per se. I don't think he's deliberately trying to fool anyone. I think he's been telling the story so long he's "dramatized it" in his head and he's not ever going to be able to go back to square one--the basic facts--because now he actually doesn't remember what square one was. I'm not sure if I've clarified anything or made it worse, but... I can't!! Just tell me where to send the coins!!
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Post by BlueMonday on Nov 29, 2016 17:52:40 GMT -5
Do not feel bad Suze. You stated an opinion and I stated a different one. This is what we do all day long on this forum There is absolutely no need to apologize about anything. We're just fans discussing all aspects of a band we truly love. It's all cool
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MorrisAutoParts
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Post by MorrisAutoParts on Dec 2, 2016 15:47:32 GMT -5
Stories do change over the years. So I usually stick with the ones closet to the date of the incident. I believe it was Cagey who produced a radio dial in from Arty a couple of days after the accident where he was asked how he was physically, and he said he was sore all over. That's it. No broken ribs, no compound fractures with bones sticking out. Just sore as he was bruised up pretty good. He never mentions being gunshot. I imagine being shot would be something he would remember. Also none of the people that were with Artimus has ever said Arty was shot and I would guess were standing right next to him when they first had contact with Mr.Mote. So I think that falsehood can be safely put to bed.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 21:35:29 GMT -5
No, that's the second most ridiculous. By far, the top spot goes to the hippy handshake story, another Arti whopper. You know the one: as the plane is about to crash, Arti and Ronnie calmly pass each other in the aisle and shake hands, and Arti could tell that Ronnie knew he was about to die. Add a few bucks to that one and I have a nice patch of swamp land in Florida that you can have really cheap. Or a bridge in NYC, whichever you prefer Why do you think it is ridiculous? Why would Artimus lie? Does he have a proven history of lying? Have other people refuted it? There was no panic on the plane - most were in denial that it was about to crash. They thought it might reach a road. You want to know more about the crash but then you go around trying to rebuff it. Maybe I should doubt people on this thread claiming they were shot 5 or 6 times?
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Post by BlueMonday on Dec 4, 2016 22:03:40 GMT -5
Why do you think it is ridiculous? Why would Artimus lie? Does he have a proven history of lying? Have other people refuted it? There was no panic on the plane - most were in denial that it was about to crash. They thought it might reach a road. From all accounts, Ronnie had taken sleeping pills and was asleep on the floor. It's rather difficult to give anyone a handshake of any kind in that condition. Many people have told many stories about the crash over the years. Some are true, others... not so much.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2016 22:43:27 GMT -5
The validity of Artimus' recollection of the crash is in question because, throughout the years, it has changed...consistently. For many, his words hold little credence. One Artimus version is Ronnie was asleep on the floor. Knowing the plane was about to go down, Artimus grabbed a "crimson, velvet pillow" and placed it under Ronnie's head. Then there was the other where Artimus was in the cockpit, assisting in making calls to the air traffic controllers. He made a few trips into the cabin to talk to passengers before eventually walking to the back of the plane to assume the crash position. Then, of course, the hippy hand shake. Whether there was panic on the plane at some point or not, has not been determined. Personally, I find it hard to believe that when the plane was about to go down, Artimus and Ronnie met in the aisle for a "hippy hand shake". There is no doubt Artimus has embellished the 'plane crash story' from the fans point of view. Why hasn't anyone refuted it or called him out? Probably because no one cares to. Someone that I recently met on FB, who was friends with Allen, shared something with me that Allen said to him. Apparently, Allen never got close to Artimus despite the amount of time they 'spent together' on the road. Allen thought Artimus was "weird" but a great drummer which was good enough reason for Allen to keep him around. So if Allen believed this I wonder how many others do too? This could be the reason why others choose to ignore him or maybe they just don't really give a flying rats ass.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2016 11:18:10 GMT -5
Someone that I recently met on FB, who was friends with Allen, shared something with me that Allen said to him. Well, that settles that!
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Post by BlueMonday on Dec 5, 2016 11:39:41 GMT -5
Someone that I recently met on FB, who was friends with Allen, shared something with me that Allen said to him. Well, that settles that! You can isolate just about any sentence from just about any post and make it look silly, if that is your intention. That doesn't alter the fact that many tall tales have been told about the plane crash over the years, and some of them have been told by Arti. At least the hippy handshake story is kinda cool and it doesn't attack anyone. How do you explain that Ronnie, who (in all accounts except this one) was sleeping on the floor after taking sleeping pills, suddenly was up and about, and clear-minded enough to calmly shake Arti's hand with an "I know I'm about to die" look on his face? It doesn't make any sense.
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